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Firefox sails past 20% market share, IE drops below 70%

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Analysis – Mozilla achieved an important milestone in November, sailing past 20% market share over an entire month for the first time since its release in November 2004. While Safari and Chrome were able to take over share from Microsoft's Internet Explorer as well, Mozilla's Firefox leaped by almost a full percentage point over October, according to data provided by Net Applications. Microsoft will need a compelling new browser rather sooner than later to slow this trend. The company's Internet Explorer lost 1.5 points over the previous month, bringing the market share loss in 2008 to more than 5.8 points.

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{"commentId":4256105,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

Firefox was estimated at 20.78%, up from 19.97% in October. The Internet Explorer dropped in the same time frame from 71.27% to 69.77% - and below the 70% mark for the first time in more than a decade. Apple’s Safari climbed from 6.57% to 7.13%, while Google’s Chrome eclipsed Opera with 0.83% (up from 0.74%) versus 0.71% (down from 0.75%). All numbers are based on the average market share posted for each day during the month.

{"commentId":4256105,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 7:02 AM EST
{"commentId":4256612,"authorDomain":"grayhouse"}

I think that 20% is a very conservative number and that the actual number is far higher. I think in the U.S. that Firefox has probably closer to a 45% share. The numbers from W3C shows both IE and FF at around that percent of market share. As a firm believer in web standards, I say good riddance.

{"commentId":4256612,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"grayhouse"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 8:46 AM EST
{"commentId":4260427,"authorDomain":"torabu"}

GrayHouse #1.1

I think that 20% is a very conservative number and that the actual number is far higher.

Globally, I think it's rather accurate. The article itself seems to stem from Marketshare's Article, which tracks worldwide browser use.

{"commentId":4260427,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"torabu"}
  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 1:35 PM EST
{"commentId":4260744,"authorDomain":"grayhouse"}

Globally, I think it's rather accurate.

I wouldn't dispute that the article reflects an accurate global usage stat. That's why I was cautious to state it that way. From my own individual stats that I can check, it seems that Firefox usage is growing much faster, and closer to the W3C numbers. Those numbers have shown FF to be gaining at about 1% a month for several consecutive months. I can see many reasons that IE would be holding a good share of usage outside the U.S., but also see that the trend to FF is catching on globally. After wasting hundreds of hours due simply to the insane quirks of IE6, I'm happy to see it's end in sight.

{"commentId":4260744,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"grayhouse"}
    #1.3 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 1:56 PM EST
    {"commentId":4260939,"authorDomain":"wonderwoman351"}

    I have been a convert for a while now. I always found ie to be a pain.

    {"commentId":4260939,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"wonderwoman351"}
    • 2 votes
    #1.4 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 2:08 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":4256329,"authorDomain":"emartens"}

    This is not surprising.  If more people were to try Firefox, I'm sure they would leave IE behind.

    Out of curiosity I downloaded IE8 to try it.  Can you say slooowww.

    {"commentId":4256329,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"emartens"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#2 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 8:00 AM EST
    {"commentId":4256600,"authorDomain":"Doc"}

    What's even more interesting to me is the disparity between browser statistics.  A quick look at w3schools.com, and they are reporting IE 6&7 with a share of 47.1% and Firefox with 40.0%.  This certainly is off from the 69-20 numbers.  While I'd guess the truth is much closer to your source, it does make me wonder how accurate any of the numbers are.  For me Firefox wins for the extensions, if it weren't for them I'd have been using Opera or more recently Chrome.

    {"commentId":4256600,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"Doc"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#3 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 8:44 AM EST
    {"commentId":4256622,"authorDomain":"grayhouse"}

    I was just posting #1.1 at the same time and agree.

    {"commentId":4256622,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"grayhouse"}
    • 1 vote
    #3.1 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 8:47 AM EST
    {"commentId":4260477,"authorDomain":"torabu"}

    Oh, that source is from w3schools? Well, that explains it. Here's an excerpt from the linked page Doc gave:

    W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to use Internet Explorer, since it comes preinstalled with Windows. Most do not seek out other browsers.

    These facts indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users.

    Anyway, our data, collected from W3Schools' log-files, over a five year period, clearly shows the long and medium-term trends.

    In other words, w3schools uses their own web traffic information. It's not a global standard like referenced in this article and on Marketshare. You're naturally going to find more users with alternative browsers on a web development site like w3schools.

    {"commentId":4260477,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"torabu"}
    • 2 votes
    #3.2 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 1:38 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":4257093,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}

    I don't think "sails past" is the best choice of words, considering it took them....ohhh....4-5 years to reach this point.

    Firefox may be gaining the market share, but it's losing in the feature set. There is noend-all-be-all browser quite yet, but right now, the Chrome + IE8 Beta combo is pretty much all you need these days.

    {"commentId":4257093,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#4 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 9:37 AM EST
    {"commentId":4257115,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

    The extensions are certainly a big part of what keeps me on FF. I would be very keen on Chrome if it supported them, and I am sure it will with time. But since I first tried FF I've been hooked. As for the accuracy of the numbers, who knows? I wish we could tell for sure.

    {"commentId":4257115,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#5 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 9:38 AM EST
    {"commentId":4257229,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
    {"commentId":4257229,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
    • 2 votes
    #5.1 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 9:50 AM EST
    {"commentId":4269333,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

    Good news, good news indeed!

    {"commentId":4269333,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
    • 1 vote
    #5.2 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 12:51 AM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":4257267,"authorDomain":"susibv"}

    I absolutely love love love Firefox........... IE is so last century :)

    LOL and I remember when IE first came out and was the oracle everyone worshipped at.

    Hilarious.

    {"commentId":4257267,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"susibv"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#6 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 9:53 AM EST
    {"commentId":4257281,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}

    You do realize that IE has been updated, right?

    I'm sure if you tried the new one, you wouldn't be describing it as "last century" as it have many features that even Firefox right now only "plans" on integrating.

    {"commentId":4257281,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
    • 2 votes
    #6.1 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 9:55 AM EST
    {"commentId":4257732,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

    IE has indeed been updated and is much improved, but it still isn't as good a solution as FF in my experience.  I develop software primarily for IE, and I wish I did not.

    {"commentId":4257732,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
    • 1 vote
    #6.2 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 10:36 AM EST
    {"commentId":4258899,"authorDomain":"susibv"}

    Yes Indie Army.....thank you......I work on computers all day.......I think I have a little bit of an idea :)

    It's still last century.........

    {"commentId":4258899,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"susibv"}
      #6.3 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 11:56 AM EST
      {"commentId":4259709,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}

      Well you need to go get that update I was speaking about then, cause you don't seem to know what I'm referring to.

      Oh, and like you suggest, this isn't the last century, everyone works on computers all day now.

      {"commentId":4259709,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
      • 1 vote
      #6.4 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 12:51 PM EST
      {"commentId":4259868,"authorDomain":"Doc"}

      @The Indie Army - Please provide link or at least mention of these supposed features.  I have used almost every version of IE through IE8 (Beta 2) and cannot name one feature that IE has that I would want to see in Firefox, while the opposite is quite true. I can name features IE does not contain that Firefox does.  To start the list, how about a built in updater so that people using IE6 can be prompted to upgrade, even if they have turned off the annoying Windows Updater.

      {"commentId":4259868,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"Doc"}
      • 1 vote
      #6.5 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 1:00 PM EST
      {"commentId":4259932,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}

      considering it's a simple matter of opinion, you'll have to find those for yourself. My experience has led me to see and use many features in IE8 that firefox simply does not offer. You however, may not use them, thus, they wouldn't be on your "list"

      {"commentId":4259932,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
      • 2 votes
      #6.6 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 1:04 PM EST
      {"commentId":4275470,"authorDomain":"checkerbattery"}

      I keep trying Firefox every once in a while but there are so many sites that don't display right or aren't compatibile that it ends up being a choice of whether to use two browsers or just IE.  With all the new features in IE8 I don't really see much of a need anyway.  There's nothing available in FF that would entice me to the point of giving up compatibility or making me run 2 browsers to get it.

      {"commentId":4275470,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"checkerbattery"}
      • 1 vote
      #6.7 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 1:42 PM EST
      {"commentId":4278126,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

      checkerbattery, what sites don't render properly in FF?  I usually find the problem is with sites not rendering properly in IE - we must visit different sites :)

      {"commentId":4278126,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
      • 1 vote
      #6.8 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 4:09 PM EST
      {"commentId":4278393,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}

      Thank you checkerbattery, finally someone realizes that FF isn't the greatest thing on earth. 

      You must be going to some weird sites dungbeetle, because pretty much every site out there is designed to work in IE above all else. Either that you are just talking out of your butt for that sake that FF MUST be better than IE.

      {"commentId":4278393,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
      • 1 vote
      #6.9 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 4:26 PM EST
      {"commentId":4278896,"authorDomain":"grayhouse"}

      I'm guessing that you haven't done much web design Indie Army, or if you have, you use Frontpage. No FF isn't the greatest thing on Earth, but IE6 was the biggest turd ever dumped on the internet. Every browser has its own set of quirks. Most of the sites I've encountered that work in IE, but not FF, were Frontpage creations.

      {"commentId":4278896,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"grayhouse"}
        #6.10 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 4:57 PM EST
        {"commentId":4279178,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

        Thank you GrayHouse.  Guys, I don't believe FF is "the greatest thing on earth".  But I write browser applications for a living, and I am forced to write for IE.  But I browse with FF because it renders most sites properly, while IE often has trouble.  IE is also far slower, even with a few big extensions installed on FF.

        You must be going to some weird sites dungbeetle, because pretty much every site out there is designed to work in IE above all else.

        Pretty much all sites are designed to work in IE as well.  Writing sites for the other browsers is easy - writing it one way works for all of them almost all of the time.  Then you have to recode huge portions of the site to handle the quirks in IE.  The other browsers are far more standards compliant, while IE has it's own ideas of how to render HTML.  Sites that work best for IE are probably written in the .NET language (or asp), which produces HTML for IE.  The developers have then not returned the favour to make their site compatible with every other browser out there.

        This is a failing of the developers of the site, not firefox.  When only 1 browser has these stupid quirks, don't make coding for those quirks the standard you aim for.

        {"commentId":4279178,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
        • 2 votes
        #6.11 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 5:13 PM EST
        {"commentId":4281550,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}

        I do quite of bit of web design, and no, I don't use frontpage. I don't know what "quirks" you are talking about, but most of the websites I still use today, have the same design they had way back when IE was more dominent in the market. They didn't design the site for "other browsers" then write "huge portions to handle the quirks of IE" simply because there pratically was nothing else back then but IE. Nice try though.

        {"commentId":4281550,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
        • 1 vote
        #6.12 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 7:29 PM EST
        {"commentId":4284652,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

        They didn't design the site for "other browsers" then write "huge portions to handle the quirks of IE" simply because there pratically was nothing else back then but IE.

        "Back then" is the important phrase.  If you do quite a bit of web design you will know the story with standards, and how you have to (for instance) use different javascript syntax to talk to elements on a page depending on the rendering engine.  Talking to the elements on the calling page, for instance, is very different.  CSS is different.  And as for iframes - they're great if you're browsing with IE, but since it's a Microsoft invention they do not render at all in standards-compliant browsers.

        It's not a nice try, I do not do "quite a bit of web design", I sit and code applications to run through browsers for 8-10 hours a day.  If you don't know of the IE "quirks" then I suspect that you do not do much in the way of HTML, javascript, CSS and back-end server coding.  I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the difficulties of coding for IE and then everything else are very well known in the industry.

        Which websites are you talking about?

        {"commentId":4284652,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
        • 2 votes
        #6.13 - Thu Dec 4, 2008 12:53 AM EST
        {"commentId":4286647,"authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}

        You can make all the claims you want about what you do with your days, it doesn't make you sound smarter.

        {"commentId":4286647,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"theindiearmy"}
        • 1 vote
        #6.14 - Thu Dec 4, 2008 9:22 AM EST
        {"commentId":4286743,"authorDomain":"grayhouse"}

        ...it doesn't make you sound smarter.

        Yeah it does. For one thing Indie, you've made it obvious that you don't design using CSS.

        {"commentId":4286743,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"grayhouse"}
        • 2 votes
        #6.15 - Thu Dec 4, 2008 9:31 AM EST
        {"commentId":4286833,"authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}

        You can make all the claims you want about what you do with your days, it doesn't make you sound smarter.

        I never tried to sound smarter (or even stupider) than anyone.  I simply claimed to have fairly good knowledge of IT due to it being my profession.  You've not convinced me that you have much knowledge of IT at all, since your main evidence is sites that were "designed" many years ago and still work in IE.  You do realise that design is only a portion of website construction?

        I notice you have steadfastly ignored my questions about which websites you are referring to, any reason for that?

        {"commentId":4286833,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"dungbeetlemania"}
        • 2 votes
        #6.16 - Thu Dec 4, 2008 9:39 AM EST
        Reply
        {"commentId":4265471,"authorDomain":"susibv"}

        LOL wow the almost rabid defense of IE you'd think this was a political issue and not an IT issue.........

        Let me guess......................if you use IE you're a real American.......FF baby killing, left leaning, hedonistic, pagans.

        lol

        {"commentId":4265471,"threadId":"432363","contentId":"2168375","authorDomain":"susibv"}
        • 1 vote
        Reply#7 - Tue Dec 2, 2008 6:37 PM EST
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